Something for some input!

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On Mon, 06 Dec 1999, roblin@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >  From:          keithk@midtown.net
> >  Organization:  Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> >  Newsgroups:    alt.christnet.public, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, alt.christnet.theology, alt.bible.prophecy
> >
> > The doctrine of the United Pentecostal Church affirms Jesus Christ
> > is eternal but at the same time they deny the Son of God is eternal.
> > If the Son of God is not eternal, that means the Son of God can only
> > be temporal. The problem is, it is impossible for something eternal
> > to be something temporal, and it is also impossible for something
> > temporal to be something eternal. This being the case, the UPC is
> > alleging Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, and the Son of God is
> > not Jesus Christ. What is wrong with this picture?
> >
> > Sincerely, Keith K
> 
> Please someone give some imput to this. This is
> kind of trash that goes out on newsgroups about UPCI

It's not UPCI you're defending... but oneness doctrine/theology.  Keith K
mentioned the UPCI as an organization advocating this *metamorphosis* of
what he is currently perceiving.  

His *paraphrased* summary of oneness theology/doctrine is flawed in what
it says to begin with.  So the first thing would be to establish that
which is correct.  Not what he things.  Establish the correctness of
oneness theology/doctrine.

Take the discussion back to where the OT says "Hear O Israel, the Lord
our God is one Lord."  Establish that God is singular to begin with and
not a chorus of little "g" gods.  Show him also the part in the NT (one of
the gospels) where it says that "God is a spirit, and they that worship 
Him, worship Him in spirit and in truth."  God is a Spirit ... (spirits
don't have shape or form) and God is singular (no lessor, no multiple gods).

Show him that the Holy Ghost *begat* what is called "The Son".  And then 
tie the "Holy Ghost", as 2nd member of the trinity in his eyes, to being 
"The Father" as the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary causing conception within 
her.   [One thing I always thought was screwy when trying to describe a
trinity of persons in the godhead was the Father as a spirit sharing the
throne in heaven with another spirit ... the Holy Ghost.  Before I knew
truth, I couldn't offer an explaination of this dual spirited phenomena.]

All of a sudden, they are then confronted with the notion that what they are
supposing in their old way of thought might not be true as they should see
that the Holy Ghost *fathered* the Son.  Drawing the conclusion that the
Holy Ghost *is* The Father.... they are one in the same.

Then you should show them scripture showing that Jesus is the *image* of the
Father.  And/or how Jesus when asked of the disciples to "shew them the Father"
and he responds (somewhere in John) "Have I been so long with you that you've
not seen me.  He who see's me has seen the Father."  And/or show them the 
scripture where it says the "Son of Man" is both in the earth and in heaven
(in John 3 somewhere).  

They should also realize "the body of flesh" does not make the person.  
Anotherwords, when a person *dies* their flesh is not them.  Their flesh is
just a shell to that force of life that was contained therein.  That particular
force of life (soul, spirit, etc) is what the person is/was.  It's what's on
the inside of the body that i.d.'s the person. When Jesus said that he was 
the one whom the Father could be seen, he was saying "The Father" in him was
the person who he is.

You can also show that Jesus talked about the Comforter coming upon people in
the Spirit of God.  When he says that he also says "when I come upon you" as 
well.  So you have Jesus saying that when the Holy Ghost baptism occurs, that
he (Jesus) is coming upon the people in the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So ... you end up with the Holy Ghost fathering the Son ... the Son actually
being the Father ... the Holy Ghost's identity truly as the Son ... around
and around and around.  It all comes back to a singular God (as a spirit)
manifesting (made known) His presence in different ways.  

Realize also... that people won't accept this unless God shows them this.  I
remember back when I was between beging catholic and apostolic/pentecostal, 
when the Lord personally showed me this *reality* of himself how he was the
Father, etc.... and I just couldn't handle it until someone could actually
bring it to me.  I still needed a preacher to show me.  After that, I connected
very quickly with what the preacher was saying and what the Lord told me months
earlier and understood/accepted it.

Bro Tyler
-- 
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