HIGHER-FIRE digest 382 (WoF)

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

Once upon a time David Vivas wrote

>v.5  And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that
>Job sent and sacrificed them, and rose up early in the morninig, and offered
>burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be
>that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus Job did
>continually.
>
>Here it says, Job did this continually. Job was afraid that something bad
>was going to happen to his children. He was always offering these
>sacrifices; always worring, always in a turmoil about it.
>
>God didn't put Job in Satan's hands. Job's fear put him in Satan's power.

I reply:

The verses you quote, basiscally Job 1:3-5, is part of the credentialling of
Job.  I have tried very hard to read these verses the way you suggest, but
it just isn't there.  The writer of Job was extolling the praises of Job,
not being critical of him for fear.  The only thing that the 1st chapter of
Job says that Job feared was God. (v8-9)

David Vivas also wrote:

 Evidently, this was lightning. One translation says
>lightning. But the ones who reported to Job said it was a fire from God.
>Just because it came from the sky, that does not mean it was from God.

I replied:

I have no problem with that.

Dave Vivas then wrote:
>
>Job 1:21 "...the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the
>name of the Lord." (Read v.19-21 for context) If one has ever been to a
>funeral, you have probably heard this scripture quoted. This was Job's
>assessment of his troubles. It is true that Job said it. But what Job said
>was not the truth. 

I reply:

Job. 42:7 "for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as MY
SERVANT JOB HATH".  (emphasis mine)

That is about as close to God saying amen as I have ever heard!

Dave Vivas then wrote:

>
>Why the troubles? Faith or fear comes by hearing. Let's look at some things
>Job said and we will get some insight of how things were started.  Job 3:5
says:
>"For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was
>afraid of is come unto me."

I reply:

Tis true, tis true.  But the reasons for what was going on is found in
Chapter 1 not chapter 3.  It was God that made the devil aware of Job, not
Job's fear leading to such a confrontation.

Dave Vivas then wrote:
>
>You see, Job was speaking his fears. The devil told Job he was going to lose
>everything he had. Evidently, Job believed it, because when calamity came,
>the first thing he said was, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked
>shall I return (Job 1:21) In other words, "I knew it was too good to be
>true; I was expecting it to happen."

I reply:

I really don't think that is what Job meant. I think he was remarking on the
fact that you can't take anything with you of this worlds material possessions.

Dave Vivas then wrote:

>Job 6:23-24 "...deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the
>hand of the mighty? Teach me to hold my tongue: and cause me to understand
>wherein I have erred." Now he found out his tongue had something to do with
>it. So he had admitted, "I've missed it somewhere." Then he says, "...how
>forcible are right words..." (6:25) So he is convinced that words had
>something to do with it.


I reply:

WAIT! Read verse 26.  "Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of
one that is desperate, which are as wind."

Hmmm. Imagine to reprove his words?  David, think maybe your making to much
out of the words of a man that is simply being tested and knows it?

Dave Vivas then wrote:
 We know God didn't have him
>captive. It was the devil. When the Lord turned his captivity, this
>indicates that after the turning, then Job had the devil captive.

I reply:

"Turn again his captivity" alas our dear old King James may have done us a
disservice.  I think if you would check the Hebrew on this one that you
might find a better translation to be "The Lord made him prosperous
again"(NIV) or "the Lord restored the fortunes of Job"(RSV).

So what is the conclusion of the whole matter?  Fear God and keep his
commandments.  Hmmm. Seems like I've heard that somewhere before.

Seriously, there were two kinds of fear expressed in the book of Job.  The
fear of God (Hebrew -Reverence) and simply fear of events (Hebrew - Fear.
Cool huh?)  But Job was acting on his fear of God, hence the sacrifices.  In
other words, I know you are greater than those things which I fear, and that
is why I sacrifice unto you, not them.  True Faith is found in actions, not
words alone.  

Job never wavered from his faith in God, he simply recognized the events of
this life (calamities, physical blessings) have no ETERNAL weight. Hence
statements like "Naked came I out of my mothers womb, naked shall I return"
and "though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I
see God."

Respectfully Submitted

Andy (God help poor old Brother Job) Gossett.

P.s.  Thanks Dave for a well thought out presentation.