HIGHER-FIRE digest 382

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On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:25:02 -0800, you wrote:

>  But the fact remains that not all Christians are rich or even healthy.
>Why? Is it due to lack of faith? Did Paul have a lack of faith when he
>besought God thrice to remove a  thorn from his life?  I think not! What
>about Job? However,  to merely suggest that a lack of outward prosperity necessarily
>denotes a lack of  faith just does not cut it. 

>First of all, Prosperity in the Biblical point of view, does not necessarily
>mean "finances". We can be prosperous in our marriage, social life, homes,
>employment, and well as our Spiritual Life. However, let us not fail to
>recognize the many scriptural references I cited on a previous discussion
>detailing that God desires to bless His people with finances. Remember Abraham? 

God does indeed provide for all our needs, though there may be moments
when it *does appear* that we are in need. Deliverance never came
until a battle manifested. Victory comes only in overcoming of a
genuine threat, and satisfaction ius supplied only to hunger.

Christian life is the path of declaring sufficiency in Jesus Christ,
the New Testament revelation of El Shaddai.

>Is it due to a "lack of faith" that Christians are poor or having financial
>struggle? What about those who are sick? And are Christians promised to
>experience a life without problems? The answers to these are simple: No, it
>isn't due to a "lack of faith." 

>Rather, many Christians do not know how to
>receive the Promises of God. In my dealings with people, the reason why some
>Christians struggle financially is because they fail to see that God wants
>to bless them in such a manner. 

Given the knowledgable audience of the present discussion, and the
question at hand, a problem comes here. The definition of faith held
by Apostolics is a hope including and neglecting neither believe,
obedience, perseverance or single-mindedness. 

With this in mind, it remains true that some, who DO know how to
receive God's promises, are NOT immediately delivered, and may go for
quite some time with FAITH itself serving as the ONLY evidence of
things unseen.

>The many scriptural references would be good for them to stand on. The old hymn 
> "Standing On The Promises Of God" is sung throughout Pentecostal circles. Instead of 
> "standing on the promises" many people are "sitting on the premises" complaining of how bad life is, or how
>hard life is, etc.

So far as I am aware - we all get a good spanking when we start acting
like this! :-)

>2 Corinthians 1:20 states "All the promises of God in Him are "yes" and
>"Amen"..." So when one is struggling financially, the thing to do is start
>speaking the promises of God instead of talking about the problem. Speak the
>answer and it shall come to pass because God is not a man that He should
>lie. He will help those who struggle financially if they can believe His
>Word and receive by faith and call those things that be not as though they
>were. However, I've never said to anyone that God is going to make people
>rich (in the sense of becoming millionaires). I just state that it is
>unnecessary for God's people to struggle and be in debt to the world. God
>does want to supply and meet our needs.

Thats is TOTALLY CORRECT!!

>On the subject of sickness. What about Job? Well, Job is the oldest book of
>the Old Testament. Please remember that Job did not have the full
>understanding of faith that we have today. He knew God and loved God. When
>the trials came upon him, he thought God was causing all the turmoil around
>him, thus the saying "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away..." God gave,
>but God didn't take away. It was satan who took away and caused all the
>turmoil. God allowed it. 

But God is sovreign and GOD does have it within his capacity, ability
and sometimes his will to "take".

As a matter of fact, I believe you are partially correct here. God
allowed this self-righteous hypocrite (who did belive that he loved
God in the best way that he knew) to have the opportunity to see how
great God REALLY was and how helpless Job really was at the end of the
experience.

In Job 40, the Lord has finally come out from silence, and addresses
Job, and Job in his revelation declares:

(God speaking initially...)
"Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct [him]? he that
reproveth God, let him answer it.  Then Job answered the LORD, and
said,  Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine
hand  upon my  mouth .  Once have I spoken; but I will not answer:
yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." - vs 2-5

Light and understand changed God's mind a lot. Yes, God allows a lot
of things that, rather than requiring faith, TEACH faith.

> But God certainly didn't take away nor make Job
>sick. You find many examples in the Book of Job where Job blamed God. This
>is what Christians do today, blame God for the circumstances they encounter
>when in actuality, the trials of life that we face are to purge us and bring
>us forth like pure gold. In New Covenant, Jesus took upon His body all
>sickness, diseases, infirmities, as well as our sins. Yes, God wants His
>people to live in Health. When we are attacked with sickness, we have the
>right to speak healing, "By His stripes, I am healed." Again, receive this
>by faith. Although your body may say that it hurts and you still feel the
>symptoms of sickness, that doesn't change the Word. Remember Abraham
>regarding his situation with Sarah? In Romans 4, it states that Abraham
>"considered not his body..." We are to consider what the Word says and not
>what someone else says or their failure to receive from God. This is the
>problem with many Christians. They look at others and make the excuse for
>their failure to receive from God.

Yes, I believe that is correct.

>Paul's thorn in the flesh was not sickness. It was the persecution he was
>receiving from individuals. Certainly not sickness. God doesn't put sickness
>on us. He takes it off of us. This is part of the Atonement. 

That's right. I dont believe that God is glorified by wheelchairs or
breathing tubes or pain. God is glorified by demonstrating His ability
and willingness to heal, in response to faith.

Many people are discouraged when they are confronted with sickness and
problems that did not come as a result of sin, and even through
praying in faith, they remain in a situation effected by such
influences.

Faith will do many things, but of certainty 
FAITH WILL either 

1. give deliverance FROM the situation
example: Hezekiah's prayer when Israel was belittled by Senacherib

2. strengthen and enable one to pass through the situation
Example: Hebrew princes in the fire and daniel with the Lions

3. transform the stuation to something useful to God
Example: Joseph's life prepared through suffering to become a ministry
to his brethren.


One things that some people miss is this: Faith sometimes BRINGS
suffering. that is a far cry from saying that one should prefer
sickness or poverty. However, FAITH is the process of seeing and
prefering and seeking the TRUE deliverance, from the CHEAP
deliverance.

Example: (Heb 11)
24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called
the son of Pharaoh's daughter;  25  Choosing rather to suffer
affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin
for a season;  26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches
than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of
the reward.  27  By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of
the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.  28  Through
faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that
destroyed the firstborn should touch them.  29  By faith they passed
through the Red sea as by dry [land]: which the Egyptians assaying to
do were drowned.

We make choices, and sometimes the choices BRING immediate
discomforts, but the long term victory is in what is presently
invisible. The Apostle teaches that Faith ALWAYS brings the vicotry,
as a result rather than a short term goal. This spotlights God as the
vindicator and as the just Judge, faithful and true, who is no
respecter of persons but the rewarder of those who in Faith,
diligently seek God without varying or duble mindedness, in ALL AREAS
OF THEIR LIFE.


-mw bassett
milford, ct
http://eli.wariat.org/~mbasset