Prophecy: yes or no?

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> > The 144,000 are constantly refered to as the "elect"
and
> > are therefore Jews.  This is not a revelation but is a
> > "literary fact." 

As I said before, this statement is wrong.

> Not to mention that the 144,000 consists of 12,000 out of
each tribe of Israel...just my 2 cents worth. 
 
This is what the Lord meant by the answer was in the
difference between the "elect" and the "saints."  The term
"elect" refered to 
ONLY the Jews in the Old Testament.  What were they
"chosen" for?  To recieve the promised land as their
"possesion" under the rule of their King.  What are we, the
"saints" of God promised?  That we will "reign" with the
King as His "bride": one flesh connected or joined to the
flesh of Christ via a Spiritual "link."
This establishes the context for finding out who the
144,000 are.

As Bro. Glen points out, the 144,000 are taken from the
tribes of 
Israel.  If this is meant symbolically as a reference to
the "bride"
or Church I would ask just which "tribe" you are in and how
do you know?  We would have to invent much that has no
Scriptural 
bases whatever to account for these divisions and it would
still leave us with the problem that the "bride" NEVER
inherited the 
LAND but only the "elect" (natural Jews).

The bride's inheritance is in the "sharing" of the
possesions of the husband as well as the "rule" as queen if
her husband happened to be a king.  When the husband died
the "bride" was without property and had to depend upon the
mercy of the heir.

The reason the 144,000 are "elected" in the book of
Revelation is to recieve the land thereby making them Jews.
 The reason it is impossible for them to be the church is
that the bride recieves no inheritance but is only taken
care of as long as her husband lives.

I am so GLAD that the Chruches Bridegroom has eternal life
and that He will share this with His faithful, pure,
chaste, virgin wife shortly after the rapture.

Want more?  Peter calls the Church "a royal priesthood." 
Let's see now, we are not the King because that is Jesus. 
We are children true enough but we are also the bride
making us royal by 
our union with the King.  Here again as I have already
stated, no
land.  That leaves the priesthood part.  The preist
(Levites) had no inheritance either.  Since we are called
by Peter the "priesthood" we have no inheritance but will
be sustained by the 
due we recieve as our portion of the sacrifice (Jesus)
through continued service to the Temple on behalf of those
to whom the inheritance is given.

The "reward" of the bride "elect" is her union with her
husband:
Revelation ch. 8 and the heir apparant (national Israel)
recieves its inheritance upon the delivery of the land into
its hands after Christ has wrested it from the hands of the
enemy.

To answer the question about where the Chruch is in the
book of Revelation, she is with her husband at the wedding
feast until after the wedding, and her legal union with the
flesh of her betrothed, at which time she returns with him
to secure the inheritance of the children.

Aint it just like God, Father of the Groom, the Bride and
the Children to have the enemy "whipped" during the wedding
ceramony so all the Groom has to do is claim his Kingdom as
a 
wedding gift/dowery/inheritance for the Groom/bride/heirs.

Glory to God and the Bride says, even so Lord, come!

Timothy (God does good stuff when I yeild) Litteral
472 Grant St.
Marion Ohio 43302
trlitteral@usa.net
http://members.tripod.com/~trlitteral