Death Penalty

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Ray> He dying had nothing to do with the death penalty...his dying had to do
Ray> with saving the Gentile from eternal damnation in hell, because before
Ray> that, we didn't have a chance either way.

Eternal damnation in hell has everything to do with the death penalty.
Eternal damnation in hell is the death penalty.  Hold on! I'm not talking 
about an earthly death penalty, I'm talking about the second death.  Death 
means separation. The eternal death penalty is eternal separation from God; 
it is eternal damnation in hell.

Ray> The Bible tells us to render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and unto
Ray> God what it God's. It also says that governments and the powers that be
Ray> are ordained of God. Therefore, if our government decided to use the
Ray> death penalty (as is the case in MOST other countries), then they are
Ray> only doing what they are supposed to do.

What in effect is being said here is that whatever the government does they
are "supposed to do," since governments are ordained by God.  So why then
did the government murder Christ?  So why does the government allow 
abortion, homosexual rights, and genocide?  Why did the government 
persecute and murder the apostles, and a multitude of saints during 
first, second, and third centuries?  Because this was ordained by God?
I don't think so!

ME> > Through the death of Christ, we are dealt a new testament, that we no
ME> > longer must pay the wage of trespassing the law!

Ray> WRONG!!!!  The law is for the lawless. If you break the law, you must
Ray> deal with your error according to the law. But if you keep the law of
Ray> man, then you are not subject to that law, for only THEN do you have a
Ray> new law, that is the law of Christ.

First of all, when I said law, I obviously meant the Old Testament
Judaic Law!  What else would I be talking about?

Ray> The law is for the lawless.

If you have the law, how can you be lawless?

Ray> But if you keep the law of man, then you are not subject to that law.

What?  This is an oxymoron.  It  makes no sense.  The way I understand 
it is this:  if you keep the law, you are subject to the law.  Keeping 
the law means being in complete subjection to the law; they are one in 
the same.  At least that is the way I have been taught the English language.

Although what I am about to say is completely inconsequential, please
forgive me for saying it:

But if you keep the law of man, then you are subject to that law.  You
are being a good citizen.  :)