Fw: BEAST OF REVELATION

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ATTN: This is going to be a long message...  I apologize, but please read
all of it.

At 06:28 PM 12/21/95 -0600, M. Murphy wrote:
>Mike Frazier said:

UGH! First, for the record.  My name is Michael.  Thank you. 

Second:
I am still amazed.  You are contradicting yourself now.  I wasn't going to
add any further fuel to your confusion, but based on your last statement ...

You have been blasting truth with your "why don't you take the word
literally" statements, yet you are now beginning to turn around on your own
arguments.  If we reject modern understanding of the contextual passages of
scripture, as you have stated that we should do, then why are you now saying
we should also reject past understanding?  This is absurd.  

Third:
If I am beginning to understand your viewpoint, then it is simply this:  "Hi
... My name is Michael Murphy. ... I don't agree with anything you
Apostolics have taught for 2000 years. ... However, I claim salvation,
Jesus' name baptism, and Holiness living. ... But I still don't believe you.
You haven't got a grasp of anything the Bible has to say, but I do. ... Let
me tell you all about it."  

Murphy, I do not want to debate you, nor do I want to offend you.  But, my
friend, you need to let God reveal Himself to you the fullness of His glory.
That is the only way you will ever begin to understand the wonderful glory
of our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.

I understand your viewpoints... And, I will not argue that Jesus Christ was
a man.  For that is definitely true.  What you fail to realize is that Jesus
was God manifest in flesh.  This is exactly what the Word declares. 

1 Tim 3:16, in the Masoretic Texts (sp?), clearly shows Theos as the subject
of this sentence written by Paul to Timothy.  Paul clearly stated that this
was a mystery - something hidden.  It was hidden from the foundation of the
world - how that God Himself, would robe His own self in a fleshly human
body - to take on the aspect of man, to suffer as a man, to die as a man -
in order that you and I might have eternal life.  This -mystery- has now
been revealed unto His saints by His Spirit (for no man can call Jesus
Christ, LORD, except by the Holy Ghost).  This is a revelation - something
revealed - that had been previously hidden.

Even His disciples had not understood at first.  They also, as you still
profess, only considered Jesus as a mere man.  But suddenly, they began to
understand Him in a different light.  John was probably the most important
figure to open this knowledge up to you and me in his writings.  Take a look
at John 5:17-18: "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I
work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not
only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making
himself equal with God."  The Jews of His day understood His claims.  How is
it that you cannot?  

Many times the Jews sought to kill Christ simply because he "as a man" made
himself "God."  See John 10:30-33, 37-39 "I and my Father are one. Then the
Jews took up stones again to stone him.  Jesus answered them, Many good
works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone
me?  The Jews answered, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. ... If I
do not the works of my Father, believe me not.  But if I do, though ye
believe not me, believe the works; that ye may know, and believe, that the
Father is in me, and I in him.  Therefore they sought again to take him: but
he escaped out of their hand ..."

Do you not see?  The Jews understood His claims.  The disciples understood
His claims.  But, even then, it was still a mystery.  Later, the Gnostics
arose and began to teach ideas contrary to truth.  Some of their ideas
included a teaching that due to the Evil which was present in the world,
obviously God couldn't have been the only Creator.  Another belief was that
Deity could never truly unite itself with anything material such as a body
(Docestism)- thus Christ couldn't have really been true flesh and blood,
since Deity could not be subjected to filthy flesh.  
However, John, in defense of Truth [as we all have been here on the
higher-fire email list for quite some time now] stood up against this false
teaching and wrote many letters, including his gospel. 
"In the beginning was the Word [Logos] and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.  The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made [He was the
Father in Creation, and the Only Creator] ... He was in the world, and the
world was made by him, and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own
[again He is shown as Creator], and his own received him not ... And the
Word [Logos] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
[now He is shown to be the Son] - John 1:1-3,10-11,14.
Later John wrote, "I have not written unto you because ye know not the
truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.  Who is a
liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?  He is antichrist, that
denieth the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:21-22) The person who denies the
Deity and Humanity of Jesus is against Him.  The Gnostics denied the true
humanity of Christ.  
John further clarifies this: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the
spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out
into the world.  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that
confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every
spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of
God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that is
should come..." (1 John 4:1-3) Again, John shows that unless we understand
that Deity was manifest in true fleshly Humanity, we are under a false
spiritual deception.  
John did not stop there - "For many deceivers are entered into the world,
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.  This is a deceiver
and an antichrist. ... Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the
doctrine of Christ, hath not God.  He that abideth in the doctrine of
Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son [why? because Christ was simply
the manifestation of the Father as the Son].  If there come any unto you,
and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid
him God speed; For he that bideth him God speed is partaker of his evil
deeds" (2 John 1:7,9-11).  Once again, John refuted the Gnostic teaching
that Christ did not truly come in flesh as a man.  

But, this is what I ask you:  Where did he refute the idea that Christ was
not Deity?  He did not, because this is exactly what John himself taught.

Furthermore, John tells us about another of Christ's disciples: Thomas.
"Then saith he [Christ] to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my
hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not
faithless, but believing.  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord
and my God.  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou
hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
(John 20:27-29)  Where did Jesus refute Thomas, and correct him?  He did
not, because Thomas spoke truth.  Jesus is Lord and God - God manifested in
flesh - Deity revealed in humanity.

John also recorded an important statement by our Lord in John 6:63, "It is
the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I
speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."  Many times I have
heard you make the assertion that since Jesus disassociated Himself from the
Father, then He must be separate from the Father in person.  And that, by
course, must follow the idea that Christ was not Deity.  This is the Dynamic
Monarchian idea of the Godhead - maintain the Oneness of God, but reject the
Deity of Christ, because you cannot understand it, as the Gnostics could not
understand how Deity and Humanity could unite.  However, Jesus stated that
the words He spoke were Spirit, or spiritual in nature.  Thus, you cannot
always simply look at his words and stop right there.  Several examples can
be given how that Christ said one thing, yet implied another, to the extent
that even His own disciples often misunderstood Him.  However, once the
Spirit of Christ became present in the lives of the Apostles, the knowledge
of the Spirtual became manifest.  That is the reason that no man say that
Jesus is LORD, except by the Holy Ghost.

I do not know who wrote Hebrews, but whoever did surely understood that
Jesus was the Almighty God: "Being made so much better than the angels
[Jesus was NOT an angel as Murphy has suggested], as he hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than they.  For unto which of the angels said
he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? [Ps 2:7] And
again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [2 Sam 7:14]
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith,
And let all the angels of God worship him. [Combination of Ps 97:7 with Duet
32:43, Septuagint] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels
spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. [Ps 104:4]  But unto the Son he
saith, THY THRONE O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is
the sceptre of thy kingdom [Ps 45:6-7].  [WHAT?  The Son, which is Christ
Jesus, who was a man, is GOD? - Biblical truth!] (Heb 1:4-8).  The writer of
Hebrews continues on and on declaring the wonderful truth of the powerful
Deity of Jesus.  However, it is too much to write in this message.  Please
read it for yourself.

Also, who is returning?  Is Christ returning?  The Scriptures declare that
Jesus will return in the clouds, visibly, to fight against the Antichrist
and his followers.  Yet, Scriptures declares "Then shall the LORD [Jehovah
GOD] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day
of battle, And his [Jehovah GOD'S] feet shall stand in that day upon the
mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of
Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the
west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall
remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.  And ye shall flee
to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach
unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in
the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [Jehovah GOD] my God SHALL
COME, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE."  (Zech 14:3-5).  

Compare the above with Jude's statement: "And Enoch also, the seventh from
Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten
thousands of his saints, To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all
that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have
ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have
spoken against him" (Jude 14-15, quoting a passage from the book of 1 Enoch).

Who is coming?  Jesus Christ, the LORD my God.

Now I would like to go back to one of my first scriptural texts.  John
clearly stated that Christ declared Himself EQUAL with God.  If something is
equal with something else, then by course, it means that they are the same.
2+2 is equal (or, is the same as) 2X2, which is 4.  Jesus (the Son as
humanity) is equal to God (the Father as Deity), which is the same, Almighty
Jehovah God.  Thus, Jesus IS God - God manifest in flesh - Deity revealed in
Humanity.  Old Testament - New Testament - same God - same Glory.

Murphy, and friends, I realize that this has been a extremely lengthy text.
And, I apologize if it has offended anyone by its length.  However, I felt
that this was of necessity.  I have prayed about this for several days now,
and this is what the Lord has instructed me to do.  The Word agrees with
itself, but by only taking a few Scriptures out of the Bible, no clear
Doctrine can be established.  We must take the ENTIRE Word for doctrine.
The whole Word of God declares the wonderful Deity of Jesus.  I, therefore,
had to use much text in order to completely portray of small fraction of the
mass amount of biblical truth concerning this revelation.

"Great is the mystery..."  But thanks be to God, that he has revealed it
unto His saints by His Spirit!

Murphy, I have prayed about it!  I only pray that you will be obedient to
the scriptures and understand what the Lord has been trying to reveal to you
for several, several months now by His servants.  We are here to encourage,
to exort and lift up, but also to uphold truth.  We are here, "set for the
defense of the Gospel."  Many of us here are truly praying for you, with all
sincerity.

May the glorious revelation of our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus, be
fulfilled in your heart this holiday season.

Michael Frazier
miykael1@mail.pernet.net
http://www.pernet.net/~miykael1/index.htm
"... I am set for the defense of the gospel ..." (Phip 1:17)