Two wills or One will?

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

>>>>> "Charles" == ormsbee  <ormsbee@MIT.EDU> writes:

    Charles> In your message of Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:19:40 -0600 (CST)
    Charles> you said: To: ormsbee@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Two wills or
    Charles> One will?  Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 04:19:40 -0600 (CST)
    Charles> From: Mike Murphy <tes@moscom.com>




    >>> 1 Tim 3:16 "And without controvery great is the mystery of
    >>> godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
    >>> Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed
    >>> on in the world, received up into glory."

    >> Trinitarian translation. See almost every other Bible.

    Charles> ...and who do you think translated almost every other
    Charles> Bible? ;-)

    Charles> <snip>

    >>> declared Himself to be the I AM, of which the religous
    >>> Pharisees and Sadducees sought to stone Him - for He a mere
    >>> man, made Himself God.

    >> Is the blind guy Jesus healed in John 9 also God? He too said
    >> "I AM" when asked a question. In the original Greek, the phrase
    >> means more like, "I am what I claim to be".

    Charles> That's true in this particular scene.  However, "ego
    Charles> eimi" [I Am] also has a divine meaning as well. Refer to
    Charles> any decent lexicon. (Rudolf Bultmann lists at least four
    Charles> possible meanings from ego eimi. ) Context is especially
    Charles> key when dealing with greek.

    Charles> We see in the arrest of Jesus in John 18 the reaction of
    Charles> the soldiers to Jesus' first response "ego eimi".  They
    Charles> fall down on their faces!  Are you honestly going to tell

Actually, they fell *BACK*, not forwards:

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went
backward, and fell to the ground.

At least thats the simplest interpretation I can see in it.  They were
not so much as bowing down to him as being knocked off their feet!  He
blew them away with the power of his word, just as he created worlds
with it in Genesis.

    Charles> us that this reaction has no significance as to ego
    Charles> eimi's meaning here?? Maybe Peter tripped them? No, no
    Charles> serious scholar would doubt the implications! Consult
    Charles> Raymond Brown's superlative work on the Gospel of John in
    Charles> the _Anchor Bible Commentary Series_. (It's available in
    Charles> most public libraries) He relates some pretty hefty
    Charles> evidence for the ego eimi theme in John.  See in
    Charles> particular index IV.  It absolutely *does* relate to the
    Charles> deity of Christ!

    Charles> <snip>
    >> do not be afraid". He LITERALLY said, "I AM" but they did not
    >> translate that way. The wanted to convey the original
    >> meaning. "It's me" or "You know me guys!"

    Charles> Aren't "they" the same nasty trinitarians who
    Charles> mistranslated 1Tim 3:16? "See almost every other
    Charles> bible". ;-) If you're going to rely on historo-textual
    Charles> criticism, please be more specific.

    Charles> Charles Ormsbee

-- 
-----------  "...  And the men went up and viewed Ai."  [Jos 7:2]  -----------
Robert Jay Brown III  rj@eli.wariat.org  http://eli.wariat.org  1 708 705-0370
Elijah Laboratories Inc;  759 Independence Drive;  Suite 5;  Palatine IL 60074
-----  M o d e l i n g   t h e   M e t h o d s   o f   t h e   M i n d  ------