Two wills or One will?

• Messages sorted by:[ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]

At 17:00 12/04/1995 -0600, you wrote:
>* See verse 1:1 for correction. Also chapter 7 where Jesus is standing in
>* heaven and the Father is sitting down, and Jesus takes something out of his
>* hand.

[ numerous verses distinguishing Father & Son deleted for brevity ]

>God on the throne and lamb are the same one.

They are one in unity, not in number. Jesus even said so when he prayed, and
not to his own spirit, "Let them be one, even as WE are one". We know for
certain that Jesus own spirit is not the Father because when dying, Jesus
said, "Father, I commend my spirit into thy hands." So not only was Jesus a
living soul with his own human spirit, but he was ONE with the Father in the
sense of unity, not number, as our Lord himself testified. Can you annul his
words, or deny his testimony? One ref is from John 14 and the other from the
passion of Luke.

>God is a spirit.  The spirit of God is everywhere (except hell).  How 
>can a spirit occupy the throne unless it is contained in a body?   That
>spirit containment is fullfilled in the Lord Jesus.  

The Father has a shape or form which can be seen by angels. (John 5:37).
And David said if he went to Sheol the LORD (Yahweh) would be there. So you
see, these human ideas don't stand up the scrutiny of the Scripture. God is
an all knowing, all powerful, and therefore all present God. His power and
mind can reach anywhere anytime, and they do! However, God has a distinct
presence in heaven. Jesus said the angels see the Fathers face in heaven,
and that the Apostles had never seen the Fathers form, or shape. However,
they were looking at Jesus when he said that! Also, the author of Hebrews
(Paul? Barnabas?) indicates that Jesus passed through the heavens to appear
in the PRESENCE of God on our behalf. 

>The easiest word picture of who the identity of Jesus is is like the robe of 
>flesh on Jesus is like a wetsuit on a skindiver (frogman).

Oh yeah. That verse is in 2 Cousteau 4:11.

 
>(mostly) head to toe with this super skin tight rubberized suit that actually
>contains him.  The man in the suit and out of the suit is the same person.
>Just as God in the flesh (Jesus) as God out of the flesh (sprit) are the
>same person.

Last time I wore clothing, it wasn't talking to me, submitting to me, and
begging me to let it off the hook! If it was, I'd consider it a seperate
person from myself. Either that, or I'd go see a shrink.

>Also this idea about two different wills is really silly.  

Well, YOU'RE ideas about it seem silly when you consider our Lord even said,
"Father, not MY will, but YOUR will be done". If Jesus was the Father, his
own personal will could not be contrasted in this way against itself.
Clearly, two persons with distinct ambitions are present.

God in the flesh
>knew there was only one purpose that he came and that was to redeeme man.
>God knew that he, personally, had to come to earth, suffer, die and rise
>even before the foundations of this world were laid.  Seems like I remember
>reading that "he was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world".  

He was the Lamb slain, but the reference to from the foundation of the world
relates to the time from which our names appear in the Lamb's book of life.
See the verse. Anyways, if God is omnipresent and has personal presence, how
can he possibly "go" anywhere as you said? Like earth?



>
>God couldn't deny himself.  That would make God a liar.  

Right. For Jesus to say he and his Father are "two men" must be true, then.
John 8:16-18. So we knwo for sure they are two people.

>The Resurrected Christ is in agreement not submission.  He doesn't receive
>orders from headquarters to carry out the big kahuna's desires.  

Wrong. See revelation 1:1-6, and 1 Cor 11:1-3, 15:20-28. Also Acts 3:19-21,26.

>I'd say distinct in the fact that the carnation of God (in Jesus) gave God
>a way to have a body to live and experience human life.  

Is the carnation of God like the lilly of the Valley? :-)
How can all-knowing God have to experience anything to comprehend it?


>it, God knows what it's like to live in the womb of a mother.  God knows 
>what's it's like to have dirty diapers.

I see your concept, but God knows everything! He always has!

>I don't know of many humanly bodies that can cause their own resurrection.
>God (a spirit) was still working in the world.  The shell of the Son was
>lifeless.  The shell couldn't cause life to re-enter.  It's the Spirit of
>God that came upon the shell and quickened it.

The problem with Oneness is it makes the Son ALWAYS a "shell". A porkchop
God floated out of when he left the cross. But the earthly Jesus had
personal identity and emotions in contrast to God's. He had to reconcile
these to undo Adam's sin. He was not a "shell" or a "meatloaf" on puppet
strings. He was a PERSON.

/\/\0sC0/\/\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-ISO 9001-=-
Michael Joseph Murphy III		Moscom Corporation
tes@moscom.com			        716-383-6000x6599
PBX/KTS Peripherals     		Technical Support

My opinions do not necessarily reflect that of the staff or
management of the Moscom Corporation. And they are grateful.