re trinity correspondence

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* >Jesus IS the image of GOD (not the Father) 2 Cor 4:4 "in whom the god
* >of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest
* >the light of the glorious gospel of Christ , WHO IS THE IMAGE OF GOD,
* >should shine unto them."
* 
* Right. Now his FLESH is gone, there is no more flesh at the time Paul wrote
* this. Jesus had become a life giving spirit according to Paul. So at the
* time Paul wrote this, in what sense is the ascended Son of God in heaven the
* "IMAGE"
* or reflection of the Father? Remember, Jesus appeared in a different form on
* the road to Emmaus, he was not flesh and blood. The author of Hebrews speaks
* of "the days of his flesh" in past tense. Jesus is a spirit being STILL in
* submission to his superior, the Father (1 Co 15:20-28, Rev 1:1-6, 7). Jesus
* went to heaven, where flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God. His
* body was sown flesh, and raised spirit, sown corrupt, and raised incorrupt,
* sown mortal, and raised eternal. Yet WIHTOUT FLESH he is STILL the IMAGE of
* God. Not actually God himself...?! When he purged all sins, he sat down at
* the right hand of the Majesty, his Father, where he was before! John
* 16:27-29 & Hebrews 1:1-3

I wouldn't say that Jesus had no flesh after his resurrection from the
grave.  It's just that the flesh he had didn't conform to the same laws 
of physics that ours do.  He could pass thru walls.  He could break bread.
His warm flesh could close around Thomas's hand when he thrust his hand into
the side of Jesus.  Thomas could feel his warm flesh close around it.

I don't think that it's accurate to say he doesn't have flesh.  His 
resurrected body was significantly different than any of our is.  Obviously
it looks human and it must appear to be the same physique as the Apostles
were used to otherwise they wouldn't have recognized him.

Scripture also says in John 3: 13

   And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from 
   heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

It is God that is everywhere.  All knowing, all seeing, all powerful.
In no way can Jesus make that statement to Nicodemus unless when he refers
to the Son of Man in heaven is the spirit of God that fathered the child
Jesus.  And he that fathered the child is the one that came down from
heaven.  Almost like the same person literally occupied the two places at
the same time. 

* On this we are certainly agreed!
* 
* >HI>Jesus is the name of the Son of God. He is not "just man" of course not.
* >HI>He was filled with the Spirit of God and lived in perfect submission to it.
* >HI>Yes he was a manifestation of God.
* >
* >Correction, Jesus was the manifestation of God in the FLESH (1 Tim
* >3:16).  The 'Son of God' does not mean that there is a 'God the Son.'
* 
* I never said God the Son. I said the Son was PERSON who was not the same
* PERSON as God the Father. It's obvious.

That's obvious when he wasn't walking and talking here on earth.  But now
he's assumed the position of complete authority in heaven (the right hand).
There is literally one throne in heaven with a bodily figure in it.  The
one whom inherited the name of Jesus from his Father is the one who sits
there.

* One God AND One Person. One God IN One Person. Two people! Per John 8:16-18.

I think that a lot of the verbiage of Jesus words in the NT was spoken in 
a way that is simple enough to understand without being so complex that it
blows us out of the water.  I think that Jesus had to reduce his speech and
choice of words so that we could gain understanding to go on towards more
fruitful understanding.

Example:  when a father talks to a son that's in pre-school he often has to
reduce the terms of explaination to that the child will understand.  A child
won't have much understanding that the reason the sky is blue (on a sunny 
day) is because of the index of refraction as a ray of light goes from a 
vacuum to air and most of the spectrum of the visible light bounces off into
space and all that is visible (when looking away  from the sun) is blue.  A
child wouldn't understand that.  Some adults don't understand that.  However
if you explain that's the only color of light that remains after most of the
other colors are bounced off into space from the blanket of air that surrounds
the earth.  That is a little easier to understand.

How would Jesus come off to the disciples if he came right out and always 
referred to himself as the ONE almight all powerful ever-living God.  But
if he referred to himself as the Son and his Father thusly, it's much easier
to understand since, hey, we all have fathers.  We all have the seed from
a father and mother that gave us live.  Like and understandable terms.

That's why it is difficult at best to *reason* the oneness of God.  It won't
work.  People for thousands of years can't see it until God gives them a 
personal revelation on who HE is.  My wife didn't get the revelation about
the name of Jesus and the oneness of God till one day I said something like:
"Hey!  Honey!  All three of me love you!"  "All three of you?!?!?"
"Yeah, me, myself, and I!"  Then the lightbulb went on over her head. And
she then understood because she received the revelation on the oneness of
God thru the oneness of Tyler (boy that sounds funny).

I remember my pastor talking about a time during bible school when the Lord
was dealing with him about being a missionary to India.  He refused to even
think about it.  Well, to make a looooong story short.  The Lord made his
life absolutely miserable (which the Lord does exceeding well when he wants
his way) until my pastor finally said "OK, I'll go".  The Lord then replied
that he wanted the *willingness* to go and not necessarily the trip there.
The Lord didn't send him.  And he wasn't miserable anymore.  He later became 
the Apostle sent to Gibson City, Illinois where he started a home mission 
work.

I think a *willingness* to understand will go a long way to understanding.

Bro. Tyler
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