tithes

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Cal wrote:

> >Tithes (giving unto the Lord) is before the Law, just as in the NT when we are
> >told....
>
> I do not find any authority anywhere that defines tithe as "giving unto the
> Lord"?  I only find tithe as something to be returned unto the Lord.  The
> only authority by which God could call those who did not return tithe
> 'thieves' (Malachi) is by the very fact that the tithe belongs to him.  When

Are you under the Law or Grace? In Genesis, Abraham gives to a man of God (at least
that is what most say). Nowhere does it mention a "you have to return to the Lord".
This is idea was initiated with the Law of Moses to support the Levites and the
Tabernacle and I agree that all is the Lord's and that we should give back.

> >With each person it is a matter of priorities.
>
> This midset is foreign to me?  The randomness of, do as you please, whatever
> it is that your heart dictates, or what you think the Lord would be please
> with do, is not what the scriptures conclude concering any subject.  For the
> scriptures were given for instruction in righteousness.  To make tithe a
> matter of priorities based upon ones heartfelt idea is to ignore the very
> detailed and multifaceted teaching of the scriptures concering tithe.
>

Read scripture (the one you snipped from the post and I have reposted below) and it
shows this mindset is correct. "Randomness of do what you please" is not what I am
talking about, the Lord talked of "taking you the cross" and other typologies of
sacrificing to follow Him. The disciples/Apostiles never taught on tithes, the
pattern and Scripture is more in line with NT salvation as a right spirit as
opposed to a black and white issue. I never talked of not giving, but giving as
your heart mandates out of love for the Lord. To require that the Law be kept for
tithing (the regular 10% thing)makes me wonder if the second and third tithes
should be required or the observing of the Feasts (since part of the tithing
mandates involved the feasts) ...or the Sabbath.

2 Cor. 9:6 - But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly;
and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2 Cor. 9:7 - Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give;not
grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The part that I have trouble with and is what has convinces me was the "not
grudgingly, or of necessity". Paul states you do not HAVE do give but give what you
WANT to give. And as the previous verse states a persons reaping will be according
to their giving. You want God's blessings to flow in your life, you better be
seeding the field!

> If the disciples sold everything and had all things in common (Acts 2) and
> this is a New Testament concept then why is it that we do not follow the
> same pattern?  This is only a rhetorical question because the answer can be
> found in tithing.

Exactly, they gave as their heart was convicted (a whole lot more than 10% BTW). If
you have a "Christian" that "claims" to be right with God and gives nothing, then
the Lord is not a priority in their life. I have seen this type have other aspects
of their walk will also suffer since they also don't have time for prayer and
study, they don't have time for outreach/witinessing. It is a walk of faith and of
sacrifice and I truly feel that one should worship the Lord with all they have
(including their wallets).

I don't want it to be thought that I am against supporting the church, I just do
not see the idea that "tithes" is the pattern we are to follow. One elder in my
church stated that "if you don't tithe you are not a Christian", I almost echo that
sentiment in that I believe that a true Christian will enter into a pattern of
sacrificial giving to support the ministry. This giving is not limited to money
either, it could be items needed by the church, i.e. your "other" computer; it most
certainly includes your time to support the church and the ministry of the Gospel.

Lord Bless;
Bro. Bill (ready for the flames)Clifton