tithes

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On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:36:27 -0500 lyohnk@juno.com (Lynne A. Yohnk)
writes:

The claim I have heard here is that (paraphrasing) "You are a THIEF if
you rob God of tithes and offerings", but there is no consistency to this
argument.  Below, Sister Yohnk explains that there were THREE TITHES.  We
are only paying ONE that I know of.  WHO STOPPED THE OTHER TWO?

Are we robbing God if we don't honor the other two?

If not, I want someone to explain to me why we are "mandated" to pay only
the FIRST tithe, that to the Levites?

>This is before the specific legislation for tithes was set up.  

So therefore, TITHES as is being claimed here, did not exist until such
legislation was set up.  That is, failure to tithe BEFORE the Law was not
a sin.

>In Gen.14:20 it is not "tithes" in quotations as is written above, but 
>tithes. In Gen.28:22 it specifically mentions giving the tenth.  We 
>all know that the tenth is the tithe. The fact tithes were before the 
>Law cannot be belittled.

You just said that it's not the same thing because it was "before the
specific legislation for tithes was set up".

>>Didn't you know that the tither could, in fact was instructed to, 
>take part of his tithe and consume it himself (Deuteronomy 12:17-19)?
>
>In The Lord's Portion, Bro. Moss explained it this way.
>
>There were three types of tithes:
>
>1. The Levitical Tithe
>2. The Feast Tithe
>3. The Poor Tithe.

******
Bottom Line Question: Do we continue these three tithes TODAY the SAME
way they did in the OT?  If not, the claim for NT tithes is a false one,
because the change had to happen at SOMETIME, and we need to find out
WHEN it happened, WHO changed it, and DID that person have the SCRIPTURAL
AUTHORITY to make such a change?
******

>The Levitical tithe is the most well known.  It was the tenth and went 
>solely to the Levites.  The feast tithe ( the one mentioned in the 
>scripture above) was to be eaten as a feast and shared with the 
>Levites.  The poor tithe was to be given every third year and was for 
>the poor AND the Levites.

Again, why do I only hear about the first tithe?  God said that we rob
him of titheS and offeringS; that includes ALL tithes.

>In the Pictorial Bible Dictionary, page 857-" Was there only one tithe 
>each year or was the third year tithe an extra one?  Confusion exists 
>about this, even among Hebrew scholars themselves.As the needs for 
>funds increased with the expansion of the temple service, a third year 
>tithe all for the use of the Levites, made in necessary to impose 
>extra tithes. According to Josephus, even a third tithe was 
>collected."

So, if it was a PROPER Old Testament tithe, why are we not mandated to
give THAT tithe as well?

>My own opinion on this is that many come to the church for financial 
>help.  Should this fall solely on the pocketbook of the minister as 
>very often does?

Different subject.  What about the poor tithe you speak of?  Why isn't
THAT mandated as well?

>>Didn't you know that the Levite was not exempt from the tithe law
>>(Numbers 18:26)? (Why do the preachers tithe 5% to the district and 
>>use 5% as they see fit, or tithe into their own church?)
>
>The Levite payed his tithes to the priests.  The preachers tithe a 
>percentage of money to the district.

It's ten percent, if they are being consistent, correct?

>The rest is NOT for as the preacher sees fit.  And may I ask you 
>when you pay your tithes to the church is it the same as you getting 
>to keep it?  We pay our tithes to the church to help pay the bills and 
>thank God for it or we would have to close the doors. Maybe we 
>should pay all of it into the district and then they could write us a 
>check to keep the doors open.

See, the problem is that it is the Church BUILDING.  WE are the Church. 
WE are the Temple.  WE are the royal priesthood.  And again, I don't want
to be misunderstood; I believe that we SHOULD give and give cheerfully to
our local Church.  I just don't agree that Pastors should preach in the
pulpit or here online that if you don't pay tithes you are a "God Robber"
and "thieves will have no inheritance", which is basically saying that if
you don't tithe you go to Hell.

>>Didn't you know you rob God by not using the tithe and offering as 
>>he had instructed (Malachi 3:8 and Matthew 25:40)?
> 
>Of course.

Then if the claim is that the OT tithe is still in effect, we are ALL
robbing God by IGNORING his other two tithes of Feasts and the Tithe of
the Poor.

BTW, this was an excellent post.  I learn so much here.

>>A church organization that allows itself the security to 
>think it's ministers can use Malachi 3:10 to coerce a tithe out of a
>>congregation, and yet believe they are immune from the law of it's 
>>use, are guilty of the robbery they accuse their congregations of, for 
>they have robbed the fatherless, strangers, and widows in their gates.
>
>This statement is erroneous.  First, the Lord himself commanded the 
>tithe.

TitheS, plural.  You have shown that there are THREE tithes; specifically
why are we only commanded to observe ONE?

>The tithe is the Lord's.  God will take care of his ministry 
>whether the people refuse to follow God's command or not.  God pays us 
>and we have to trust God all the time because there are people who 
>refuse to pay their portion.  It is not coercion, it is a command.

I have read it online here today; if you don't pay your tithes, you are
going to Hell.

>>Didn't you know the law was ended by Christ, including tithing 
>(Romans
>>10:4)?
>
>Nope. Another false statement. The law was ended, tithing was not.

The distinction here being?  You said that tithing was not really
instituted until the legislation was set up.   Do you believe that people
who didn't tithe BEFORE the Law were in sin?  What about those AFTER the
Law?

>>Didn't you know that the post law New Testament Church didn't use
>>tithing as a way of financing (2 Corinthians 9:7)?
>
>Nope. Wrong again.

You can make the claim, but do you have any proof behind the claim?

>There were freewill offerings in the OT also.  That does not do away 
>with tithing.

There is no mention of tithes being used in the NT.  

>>Didn't we really know all of these thing, or are we willingly 
>ignorant of what the Word of God says so we can use it to fill our own 
>pockets with gold?
>
>Who? Those who refuse to pay tithes? 
>
>James 5:4  "  Behold the hire of the laborers who have reaped down 
>your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries 
>of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of 
>Sabaoth."

This is not speaking about tithes, but about rich people.  

>Lynne Yohnk

>BTW, Bro. Welch, if The Lord's Portion is online I am not aware of 
>it.

While I disagree with you on this subject, I must say that it was a very
good read and I have learned something from it.  Thank you!

Jerry Welch
ICQ: 18489712
www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2810/

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