REAL STANDARDS ARE NOT OFFENSIVE

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On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 01:15:17 EDT FITZGEREL@aol.com writes:

>It has been my experience in 22 years of pastoring, that when I come 
>across people out in the world that really want to live for God, they
don't 
>object to any instruction in righteousness.  

I would agree.  All the MORE reason to be reasonable with 
requests for standards that are extra-biblical.

>You used some pretty for out examples, 

I personally witnessed or experienced them.  I believe them to be very
serious issues, wouldn't you?

Also, while I have the ear of a Pastor, I have to ask something.  If you
saw some of the things that I have quoted going on while you were a
visiting Pastor, what would YOUR responsibility?  

Assume for the sake of this discussion that you clearly see the action of
that Pastor as being outside of the Will of God and damaging spiritual
lives...

>so let me use some also.  

Which is only fair.

>Lets say that a couple started coming to church and God
>filled them with Holy Ghost and they wanted to be baptized 
>and they had been living together as husband and wife for 
>ten years and had some children, but had never actually 
>gotten married.  

Believe it or not, my GRANDPARENTS were that way!

>Now you probably know as well as I, that in God's eyes 
>they are probably considered to be married.  

I would agree.

>Should you recommend to them that they need to tie the 
>know legally, or do you just leave it alone.  

It's not the LEGAL aspect of the ceremony alone, but the religious aspect
that I would concentrate on.  You CAN do that, btw.

And I would not consider this a far out example.  I'm sure it happens
alot.

Let's take this same example and let me ask a question about it: if those
two people got married, would it be right for the Pastor to DENY the use
of the Church for the ceremony?  

>It seems that most of the time when you are talking about a 
>Pastor and the Standard issue, that it is always imposed 
>upon the saint, but that has not been the case in most of 
>my ministry, (thank God).  

I would equally thank God.  And I bet that as a result that you have some
pretty mature, self-reliant saints.

>I don't use these things as a club and come from a completely 
>different school than what most of the people on this list seems 
>to have come from.  

Would that I had you as my first Pastor, then.

>The Pastors that I have set under in my younger years are men 
>that had my respect and love and helped me focus my whole 
>being on living for God. 

Don't get me wrong; I loved my Pastor and had the ULTIMATE respect for
him.  If you'd like, I would privately tell you what I did in obeying him
when I shouldn't have.  I was quite the good little Pentecostal follower,
even when I was wronged.

>And for that I am grateful.  Now I have seen some come through 
>over the years and balked at this and balked at that, and didn't 
>think this was necessary and didn't think that was necessary.

Paul recognized that extra-Doctrinal standards were a burden to the
saints (Acts 15:28,29)

>But just remember this, that God is going to hold that Pastor 
>accountable, so he had better stand firm in his convictions.  

I would say "stand firm in his DOCTRINE", but I think I agree with you on
this.  

>And by the way God does give the Pastor convictions regarding 
>his responsibilities as the Pastor.  

But I don't believe that God calls any Pastor to have that Pastor preach
his personal convictions as Church Doctrine, do you?

>Just because there are bad parents out there, I hope that no 
>one intends to do away with parents and there authority.  

And, again, I hope that no one believes that I am fighting the very
concept of Pastors.  I'm not.

I am just saying that Pastors need to be careful, because they are
swinging a spiritual jackhammer when they speak behind the pulpit and
sometimes they whirl it around as if it were a small handheld hammer.

>Just because some parents abuse that authority, I think it would 
>be wrong to take that authority away from parents, don't you.
>I believe it needs to be used properly, and God will hold us Pastors
>accountable for that, believe you me.  God Bless You.
>
>Pastor Fitzgerel

But I believe that between the time that the Pastor in question abuses
the authority and the Judgment Day, there are going to be multitudes of
people who will leave the Church because of these things.  

Jerry Welch
ICQ: 18489712
www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2810/

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