A Shame?
Jerry Welch (tlwitness@juno.com)
Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:26:29 -0500
On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:49:45 -0500 lyohnk@juno.com (Lynne A. Yohnk)
writes:
>>But there is a lot of abuse going on in just that fashion.
>
>I would agree that there is *some* although I'm not sure there is
>alot.
I'm not talking about a lot of MAJOR abuse (although there IS major abuse
happening), I am talking about alot of MINOR abuse; family preference,
personal convictions being portrayed at the same level as scripture, etc.
>>But that was when I was blindly obeying my Pastor. He said it was
>>wrong, BAM! it was wrong.
>
>And so now you are trying to help others to prevent this from
>happening by teaching personal responsibility which is a good thing to
>practice. ( IOW, I agree personal responsibility and not blindly
>obeying is a good thing.)
Thank you for that. I don't believe something is wrong just because a
Pastor says it is wrong. I >>>DO<<< believe that something is wrong if
the Bible says it is wrong, and I believe that we need to understand the
difference.
A local standard is not necessarily a SIN, although often they are
presented as such and people who do not follow the local standard are
usually considered "not as in touch with the Lord as they should be, or
they wouldn't do such and such" if not considered out and out
backsliders.
*THE* Standard is the Bible; it cannot be denied.
*A* standard can vary from Church to Church and usually has little if
anything to do with salvation.
>>And THAT is what I want to emphasize, not demonize. I don't believe
>>there are really many Pastors at all out there that purposely abuse
>>the position that God has given them.
>
>I'm glad you feel that way.
I think that because I have spoken about this that some people believe
that I am some kind of rebellious saint, out to cause trouble with not
only my Pastor but any Pastor out there. That is simply not true. I am
just not going to condone or actively allow abuse of the pulpit. I think
that much of it. But I ALSO follow what the Bible says. If I were to
see abuse, I would not gossip about it to others. I would privately
approach my Pastor and explain what I think is a problem.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do just about anything.
>>>This is not meant to excuse a bad reply to why something is wrong,
>>>but maybe it can lend a little understanding. Many times I think
>>>pastors are looking farther down the road when they caution
>>>against something that, at first, seems innocent.
>>
>>And alot of times, it is the uninformed decision of a man who is
>>afraid of new technology, as in the case of Television and, as we are
>>discussing, video games. I wonder why Radio didn't have that
>problem?
>
>Here is where we disagree in that I don't think most pastors are
>uninformed.
Then why the blanket condemning of television in the 40's? Why the
blanket condemnation of video games in the late 70's? In BOTH scenarios,
the technology was INNOCENT, and still undefined. By our public
statement of withdrawal from any influence on the direction it would
travel, we almost certainly condemn such technology from the outset.
>Some are, I'm sure. The weight on a pastor to guide
>lives is heavy and I doubt that most take it lightly. The men of God
>are trying to help saints live for God. Some are on a power trip, but
>a true man of God will not be. You've obviously had some bad
>experiences and that is truly unfortunate.
I agree. The ironic part is, that had these experiences (plural) not
happened, I would still be an ignorant follower of a Pastor.
But that doesn't answer my comment. I don't believe that Pastors have
further vision necessarily than saints. That assumes either ignorant or
uncaring saints, and I simply don't believe that to be a fact. Some are,
I'm sure, but to blanketly assume that your congregation is ignorant
and/or uncaring is a false assumption.
>As far as radio, maybe this was placed in the realm that you are
>trying to place television in. Radio was not seen as much of a threat
>to our spiritual walk as television. ( This is just my guess.)
But WHY? If you'll remember, (I don't, but I have read about it) soap
operas started on RADIO, not television; television started out as local
talent shows and the sort; no real programming at all...
>>Life isn't easy, and our mission was never promised to be an easy
>one. We have to look at "what should be" and see how something could be
>>used to spread God's Word or to further establish saints, etc.
>>
>>It is more effective to our mission to attempt to influence/use
>>something when it first starts so that it is established as a Godly
>>tool.
>
>This is your theory but I'm not convinced it would work.
Then contradict my theory with something solid. The premise of my theory
is this:
That ANY arena that the people of God purposely withdraw from totally
will by definition be controlled by unGodly people.
How can you argue against that? If there is to be any chance of
redeeming a given arena to the glory of God, how can it be guided that
way without influence from the PEOPLE of God?
>One thing I have learned is that God will speak to those above me about
certain
>things. I don't think God has ever *only* spoken to those above me
>and left me out expecting me to blindly obey.
Then why isn't there a confirmation of sorts to an individual when they
are basically commanded to obey a new standard? Are saints expected to
obey such a standard merely because it has been spoken behind a pulpit or
should they seek God and see if it applies to them?
> This subject reminds me of the OT prophet who was told to fast and
>not break it and then an old prophet told him to break his fast and he
>did.
This is an EXCELLENT example of my side. If you have a standard that God
has given you, and even if an elder Prophet tells you otherwise, you need
to listen to God.
>God was angry with him for breaking his fast and a lion slew
>him. ( 1 Kings 13) You are right that sometimes God will speak to us
>personally and the elder will be wrong. But I strongly believe this
>to be the exception more than the rule. I believe that the younger
>prophet in this instance full well knew he shouldn't break his fast.
>I think he just did what he wanted and used the old prophet as an
>excuse to do what he wanted to do anyway.
>
>Lynne Yohnk
Based on what? I believe that he was probably taught to blindly obey his
elder. After all,
>One thing I have learned is that God will speak to those above me about
certain
>things.
Perhaps the young prophet believed the same way...
Jerry Welch
www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2810/
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