Here they come

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Since nobody here seems to actually remember the quote (and reply I made
to a reply to that post), I've reposted them and a reply to the reply
and these to characters.

On 09/10/98 at 08:32 PM, "Timothy Litteral" <brotim@gte.net> said:

>Mike B4:
>Come on Tim!  His (Skip's) point was that the word "obey" was not in
>Heb.13:17 and he blasted someone for using it.  I was merely pointing
>out that the word *is* in the scripture! 

Tim:
>Skip said that in the *original* text, the word was not obey:

No, I "blasted" someone for using the word OBEY (that much was correct). 
I copied Heb 13:7 _NOT_ 13:17.

>Now, why did they choose one of the most obscure meanings of this word,
>which literally means "to persuade", or by verb tense "to be persuaded"
>and ONLY gains that other meanings from context?

What I really said and replied to the reply to my post:

>"They say, 'Give me Scripture for shaving it off.'  Hebrews 13:17 --
>obey them that have the rule over you."

>"That's all the Scripture you need!" he shouted. "That's *all* you
>need!"

No it isn't all you need.

KJV
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken
unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of
[their] conversation. 

The Darby Bible
Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of
God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their
faith. 

Young's Literal Translation
Hebrews 13:7 Be mindful of those leading you, who did speak to you the
word of God, whose faith -- considering the issue of the behaviour -- be
imitating,

Remember _not_ obey is the word.  Bring to mind, recall; obey isn't the
word used.  The last part of that verse is even more a reason to
disagree with that statement.  Considering their (the ruler)
conversation (or life).

Not to mention, the various little verses about letting all things be
established with 2 or 3 witnessess; here a little/there a little;
rightly dividing the Word of God; etc, etc.

the reply to a reply to my post:

>Is it surprising when you look at the personal benefits to those that
>misquote it? The power, the authority. Is it surprising that once they
>have that power and authority, that they use it to prevent corrections
>of misquotes such as this one? It's human nature oure and simple.

Actually, I cut-n-pasted the wrong verse 13:7, not 13:17 (which does say
obey).  The problem being is for this verse they interprete obey and
submissive to be without question, but when it comes to wives obey and
submissive means as the husband follows the Bible.

NEW BLAST:

Mike and Tim, how about both of you admitting you were wrong and moving
on to a new subject?

1) I copied the wrong verse; and made a mistake
2) I corrected the mistake
3) it is apparent neither Mike nor Tim has the ability to think right
now. (Yes, Mr Moderator that was a personal jab, I ment it - they need
it). 4) Obey doesn't mean follow without question; it isn't an obscure
meaning of the orginal Greek.  All of those definitions are approximates
of each other.  Obey means to follow either instructions, rules, OR
guidance. 5) the KJV was written in 17th cent. English; words are used
differantly now than then. 6) get over it, go on to the next discussion. 
we can argue the semantics of the KJV from now until eternity.

Skip

A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place -
anon.


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