REAL STANDARDS ARE NOT OFFENSIVE

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On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:11:54 EDT FITZGEREL@AOL.com writes:

>And the sometimes we become judgmental and without compassion when 
>someone teaches against something that is harmful to some, and we accuse
them 
>of being narrow minded and judgmental when all they are trying to do is
protect 
>those that God's has put under there care.  

I understand where the justification for imposing such standards comes
from, but I believe it is underestimating the people of God.  I believe
that if we teach the BIBLE as the only firm standard (which it is; the
traditions of men are flimsy at best) then all other questions of
"standard" suddenly become hollow.

>We are not in the business of condemning the world at large, 
>only trying to with good conscience do what God has called us 
>to do.  

Please don't take this personal or offensive, but are you really saying
that God literally called you to preach your personal convictions on your
congregation?

Or to preach the WORD?

There is a difference.

Again, I don't want that to sound offensive, but it is a legitimate
question.  

Let's talk honestly about these standards; they are being used RIGHT NOW
in Pentecostal Churches to be the "yardstick" of Holiness.  If you don't
line up with the local yardstick (which is different than the yardstick
in the next town, or possibly even the other side of town), then there
must be something spiritually deficient about you.  You are a rebellious
person.  You need to pray to God to help you stop thinking in the flesh
and then you would see that this standard is God's Will.  

I say the only yardstick that should be mandated as far as a test of
fellowship is the BIBLE; the flimsy and wavering standards that vary from
Church to Church and from era to era is nowhere near stable enough to set
a foundation on, but the Bible is.

And you know what?  It doesn't change from Church to Church.

>And if some don't agree with our position, than you are at 
>perfect liberty to go to Church some place else, as you know is 
>your God given right to do anyway. 

That's my whole point, though.  SOME Pastors, don't believe that is so. 
And if you "defy them", then you are declared out of the Will of God.  I
can personally name three off the top of my head that don't allow any
Saints to move  (pardon me, in two of the cases, if you are family, you
are not only ALLOWED to move, but the Church is allowed to raise an
offering to help you on your way with Godspeed), even to the point of
stubbornly refusing to write a letter of recommendation for the Saint
that is moving.

Let me give you a personal experience: I worked as News Director at a
radio station and the Station Manager ordered me to lie On Air and hide
the wrongdoings of the local District Attorney.  I refused and was fired.
 This is a town of less than 5,000 people, so jobs are not readily
available.   I got an opportunity to start my own business in another
town where there are three Pentecostal Churches.  The Pastor told me that
NONE of those Churches were Godly and that it would be better for me to
get as many jobs flipping burgers rather than move.  I was married and
had a baby at the time.  

Should I have blindly obeyed?  Or, did as I did; peacefully told the
Pastor that God had opened a window of opportunity for me in another
area?  Up till that moment, I was a Saint in good standing in the Church,
but I was refused a letter of recommendation because of my unwillingness
to stay.

Oh, I could have got one job flipping burgers, another job sweeping the
school, but I don't believe that was God's Will, merely the Will of a
Pastor unwilling to allow any of his saints to move...

>But it is our God giving right to preach and teach against anything 
>that has as much influence as TV does 

And although we can't change the past, surely you see where Pentecostal
organizations erred by withdrawing ALL influence from television when it
first came out, don't you?  When the Church of God en masse exits a given
thing, what is left to guide and direct it other than non-Godly people?

It's like being the only person in a car and then jumping out while it's
going down the road.  Don't be shocked to see it crash and possibly hurt
or kill other people.  We need to be there to STEER, but we can't do it
on the side of the road.  We need to be INSIDE the car.

>being and ministering to those that attend our Churches and its 
>message be so violent and sexual in content.

But it didn't used to be that way and we had an opportunity to make sure
that it didn't, but we blew it.

>Not everyone has the perfect balance that some seem to think that they 
>have here on the list, the Bible states that the Law was made for the 
>sinner and the ungodly, 

In the OLD TESTAMENT.  No one is under the Law, as I am sure you well
know.  Matter of fact, I believe that the Bible says that against the
manifestation of the Spirit, THERE IS NO LAW, in which case it would be
WRONG to place such Law-like conditions on Saints who would otherwise be
in good standing.

Do you see my point?

>in other words for those that recognize our human failings and 
>tendencies, 

Which we all do, but what is the scriptural justification of using ONE
PERSON'S personal convictions and declaring them "standards of Holiness"
to the point where it becomes a test of fellowship?  

I'm not saying it is like that in your Church, but I am sure that you
know many Churches where it is.  

>and don't want that influence in our life to contend with. 

"Don't want"?  Well, sorry to say, nowhere in the Bible are we told to
hide; we are to be SALT and LIGHT; and we can only do that if we are out
there making an influence.

>I am just stating the opinion of a humble man of God that takes 
>the responsibleness that come with being a Pastor seriously.  

Which is the way it should be.

>I am not on some kind of power trip, or ego trip or any of those 
>other insinuations that I have seen posted recently.  

And, lest anyone think differently, (and I can only speak for myself) I
am not referring to you or anyone else on this list.

What I am concerned about are the MANY situations where Pastoral
authority is abused to the extent that it causes people to leave.  I
know, people are responsible for their own salvation, but Brother,
requiring ANYTHING other than the Bible is an unnecessary stumblingblock.
 

>When we have real holiness on the inside, we find that we don't mind a 
>standard being manifested on the outside.  

Here's where I have the problem.  One time being like this opened me to
SERIOUS trouble that took YEARS to heal.

Also, I would question ANY conviction if it is not SELF-ORIGINATING. 
What is accomplished by adopting other people's convictions?  

We can attempt to "rubber-stamp" personal convictions throughout an
entire congregation, but if it does not originate with the person or the
person obeys it merely as window dressing or peer pressure, it does no
good and only promotes the APPEARANCE of Holiness.

Also, since it is an addition to (let's be honest) requirements to be in
good standing in the Church, it not only opens the door to serious
stumblingblocks that don't need to be there, it shatters the doorframe,
excluding people, and is there anyone on Earth whose personal convictions
are Biblically sound enough to be stamped on an entire congregation like
that?  Of course not.  Therefore it causes bad feelings, because those
who are not obeying someone else's convictions are then declared to be
"rebellious", or "they aren't spiritual enough", etc.

>Because it is just stating the direction that we want to go 
>on the inside, and sometimes helps keep us going that 
>direction. 

Then guide them with the BIBLE, not with some mortal's personal
convictions (which by definition are tailored to match that person's
weaknesses and are all but useless to others who have DIFFERENT
weaknesses).

>No offense meant so I pray no offense taking.

>Pastor Fitzgerel

None taken and thank you for the very informative "insider view" post.  I
wish that more Pastors would post so forthright to us here.

What say ye, Pastors?

Jerry Welch

www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/2810/

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