Pastors Leading the flock???)

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 Bro.  Welch:
 To end this particular point of the thread, do I understand you correctly
that you believe such use of Pastoral authority is an abuse of such power
(the totalitarian) and is wrong?

 Mike:
 Yeah man!  That's what I been trying to tell you. 
 
 Mike B4:
 What does that have to do with pastors having the authority to 
>establish standards?  God forbid we may have a thief or a child 
>molester out there that is posing as a "Man of God," what does 
>that have to do with the our point?

 Bro.  Welch:
While I don't know what thieves have to do with this, my point that
"power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" also works on
Pastors. 

 Mike:
 Okay.  After rereading this, I can see how this may not be too clear.  My
point is that there *are* men that become pastors that have mild to serious
character flaws.  There are men that could (and do) use the pastoral standards
thing as a whip and an ego bolsterer.  However, I still believe in pastoral
standards.  I think anytime you have an assembly of diverse opinions on things
such as modesty (and I hope you don't agree with one of the other list members
that modesty is *not* relative) there has to be some sort of order
established, thus, standards.
 
 You are correct that power can corrupt, but it doesn't always corrupt does
it?  And it doesn't always corrupt to a fatal flaw. 
 
 Bro.  Welch:
 My point is that you can't have totalitarians (which do TREMENDOUS
wounding to the saints of God) if standards are not placed on the same
keel as scripture....
 
 Mike: 
 If I understand you correctly, I agree with this portion of your statement.
 
 Bro.  Welch:
  ....or made a test of fellowship....

 Mike:
 This is where we may have problems.  Under some circumstances, too great a
differential in standards my cause a rift in fellowship.  Even then it may
not, it would depend upon the situation.    (how's that for a definite maybe)?

 Bro. Welch:
 ...or made a test of....salvation
 
 Mike:
 I hope you can recall that I have stated many times that I believe you are
saved by grace thru faith, not standards.  Of course I agree with you here.
 
 Bro.  Welch:
  If we willingly place stumblingblocks in front of saints, are we not
responsible if they fall?
 
 Mike:
 Indeed, but if we are unwilling to remove existing stumblingblocks, are we
not equally responsible?  I have told you before that I feel that the
placement of certain standards do just that, remove even more hazardous
stumbling blocks.

   Mike Reed