Show(wo)manship & Emotions (long post)

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Regarding spiritual influence in worship:
Written previously:
|Vinessa> spirit of God makes them do.  The Bible gives us many examples as
you |Vinessa> must be aware of people singing, dancing, clapping, shouting
in the |Vinessa> spirit...

|KD> And those would be??
|KD> explained.  Also, not once is it ever
|KD> mentioned that anyone was ever 'slain in the spirit/Spirit' or
|KD> 'laughed in the spirit/Spirit'.
 
|Tarik> Dear kathy what about the time whjen Daniel got a vision
|Tarik> and fell to the floor because He wqas overwhelmed by the
|Tarik> glory.Also ezekiel fell and the spirit of The Lord raised
|Tarik> him up
 
|RJB> Or what about John on the Isle of Patmos in Re 1 when he say the
Lord?

I am not saying that it did not happen or is not possible, but there are no
examples of this happening during corporate/public worship in the NT. 
These examples, plus the ones I cite from the NT primarily happened during
private devotions, prayer or meditation (not particularly worship).  Here
are the examples that were cited:

Daniel:
(Dan 8:17-18 KJV)  "So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was
afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of
man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. {18} Now as he was
speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but
he touched me, and set me upright."

(Dan 10:9-10 KJV)  "Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard
the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face
toward the ground.
{10} And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon
the palms of my hands."

deep sleep = 7290. radam, raw-dam'; a prim. root; to stun, i.e. stupefy
(with sleep or death):--(be fast a-, be in a deep, cast into a dead, that)
sleep (-er, -eth).

Notice that he *was* in a deep sleep but was set upright.  Also notice that
this happened when Daniel was praying privately, not while in corporate
worship.  This is not an instance of the NT Church worshiping and someone
'falling out in the Spirit'.  Notice also that there is no mention of this
deep sleep as being influenced or induced by the Spirit.  In fact, in
Daniel 10:8, Daniel tells us that he had no physical strength left, which
may have induced the deep sleep. 

Ezekiel:
(Ezek 1:28 KJV)  "As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the
day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was
the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it,
I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."
 
Doesn't mention that he was 'in the Spirit'.  Like with Daniel, the angel
indicates that he should stand up.  *Then* the Spirit entered into him.

(Ezek 2:1-2 KJV)  "And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet,
and I will speak unto thee. {2} And the spirit entered into me when he
spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto
me."

John:
(Rev 1:10 KJV)  "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me
a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

(Rev 4:2 KJV)  "And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne
was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

(Rev 17:3 KJV)  "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness:
and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of
blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

(Rev 21:10 KJV)  "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high
mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out
of heaven from God,"

This is a great example of what it means to be 'in the Spirit'.  John was
apparently in a spiritual trance-like or ecstatic state when he received
the message of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.  This is my interpretation
of this, anyway.  However, it does not explain it explicitly.  He did have
some sort of a vision/dream, though He may have been actually physically at
those places he saw, much in the same way that Paul describes his
experience:

(2 Cor 12:2-4 KJV)  "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot
tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. {3} And I
knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell:
God knoweth;) {4} How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard
unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Paul's and John's experiences are also akin to Philip the evangelist's:
(Acts 8:39-40 KJV)  "And when they were come up out of the water, the
Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and
he went on his way rejoicing. {40} But Philip was found at Azotus: and
passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."

And to Ezekiel's:
(Ezek 11:24 KJV)  "Afterwards the spirit took me up, and brought me in a
vision by the Spirit of God into Chaldea, to them of the captivity. So the
vision that I had seen went up from me."

What about spiritual trances:
(Num 24:2-4 KJV)  "And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding
in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon
him. {3} And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath
said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: {4} He hath said, which
heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into
a trance, but having his eyes open:"

(Num 24:16 KJV)  "He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the
knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling
into a trance, but having his eyes open:"

(Job 33:15-17 KJV)  "In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep
falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; {16} Then he openeth the
ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, {17} That he may withdraw man
from his purpose, and hide pride from man."


Peter's vision

(Acts 10:9-10 KJV)  "On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew
nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth
hour: {10} And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they
made ready, he fell into a trance,"

Peter's vision:
(Acts 10:9-10 KJV)  "On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew
nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth
hour: {10} And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they
made ready, he fell into a trance,"

trance = 1611. ekstasis, ek'-stas-is; from G1839; a displacement of the
mind, i.e. bewilderment, "ecstasy":--+ be amazed, amazement, astonishment,
trance.

This word 'ekstasis' is the word we derive our word 'ecstatic' from.  It is
described here as a displacement of the mind.  Peter was fasting, which may
have allowed him to focus more greatly on his pray and meditation.  Notice
that this did not happen during public or corporate worship, but privately
while in prayer.

Paul describes a similar experience when he testified about his conversion:
(Acts 22:12-18 KJV)  "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law,
having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, ... {16} And now
why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling
on the name of the Lord. {17} And it came to pass, that, when I was come
again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
{18} And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of
Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me."

But, this word is also used to describe general, non-spiritual
astonishment:
(Mark 5:42 KJV)  "And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was
of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great
astonishment."

(Mark 16:7-8 KJV)  "But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he
goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
{8} And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they
trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they
were afraid."

(Luke 5:24-26 KJV)  "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power
upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say
unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. {25} And
immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and
departed to his own house, glorifying God. {26} And they were all amazed,
and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen
strange things to day."

(Acts 3:10 KJV)  "And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the
Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and
amazement at that which had happened unto him."

All in all, there are still no examples of one being 'slain' or 'falling
out' 'in the spirit/Spirit' in corporate or public worship (IOW, during a
Church service).

In my last post on this I wrote that I was earnestly contending for the
truth.  I want to follow the examples set down in scripture.  I was raised
in a church (the Catholic one) where EVERTHING was based on tradition.  I
want to fellowship in a Church were our traditions are based upon solid
scriptural examples.  I am no longer willing to go along with the crowd no
matter how 'anointed' they seem to be.  Worship is a man-thing from the
heart *and* mind *and* spirit of man (wish I could underline man in that
sentence).  

(Psa 47:7 KJV)  "For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with
understanding."

understanding = 7919. sakal, saw-kal'; a prim. root; to be (caus. make or
act) circumspect and hence intelligent:--consider, expert, instruct,
prosper, (deal) prudent (-ly), (give) skill (-ful), have good success,
teach, (have, make to) understand (-ing), wisdom, (be, behave self,
consider, make) wise (-ly), guide wittingly.

"Sing praises with circumspection and intelligence" -- actions of the mind
of man.

God is certainly involved and we can pray and sing WITH the Spirit.  (Isn't
that great, a God and man singing duet!)

In the OT, the primary word for worship is 'shachah' which literally means
to prostrate oneself.  Man falls down before God of his own will to show
homage and submission.

(Psa 95:6 KJV)  "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before
the LORD our maker."

In the NT, the primary word for worship is 'proskuneo' which literally
means to fawn or crouch down, to prostrate oneself in homage.

(Mat 4:9-10 KJV)  "And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee,
if thou wilt fall down and worship me. {10} Then saith Jesus unto him, Get
thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God,
and him only shalt thou serve."

(John 4:24 KJV)  "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth."

If we truly want to worship God in truth, we must bow ourselves down, then
let the Spirit lift us up.

(1 Cor 14:23-25 KJV)  "If therefore the whole church be come together into
one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are
unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? {24} But if
all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned,
he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: {25} And thus are the secrets
of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship
God, and report that God is in you of a truth."

If we worship in truth, others will follow.

Kathy Dimick
Falkville, Alabama
kdimick@colsa.com
kedimick@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~coffeepleaz/index.html

"For to me to live is Christ"