Jan's Question

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>
>On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Mike Murphy wrote:
>
>> As for 0Eystein, hear!
>> 
>> "But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our
>> gathering together to meet him we ask you, brothers, not to be easily shaken
>> in your thinking ... claiming that they day of the Lord has already come.
>> DON'T LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU IN THIS WAY." 1 Thessolonikos 2:1,2b
>>        ^^^^^^^
>> 
>> So if 0Eystein claims the day has already come, he is seeking to deceive us.
>> Forgive me, 0Eystein, if I speak falsey. I judge between you and the Word!
>> You also said it is a mistake to expect historical circumstances to repeat.
>> In the case of your doctrine, it seems they have. :-)
>
>
>What you just did is very typical for PreMill, you take a verse and rip it
>out and use it for totally different circumstances. (BTW: I think you ment
>second Thessalonians (Thessolonikos)). 
>
>All of NT was written before the coming of the Lord, to the people that
>lived then, obviously waiting for that to happened in their lifetime. So
>Paul is absolutely correct when he said that the Lord hadn't come yet. But
>read further on from verse 3, and Paul describes what would happen first -
>things that all had their fullfillment in the first century. 
>
>So in conclusion: I think to jump past all that and apply that verse to me
>- almost 2000 years later - is totally wrong! 
>
>
>Murph also wrote in another mail:
>

>> I think 0Eystein is cool, but off the mark on saying it's wrong of
>> Christians who hold a 2nd coming literalism to do so. Obviously we should
>> per Paulos. 
>
>I think you are cool too Murph, but as I have said many times before,
>Jesus himself said he would come within that generation. That is as
>literal as it can get! 
>          
>OEystein

Dear Brother OEystein,

        The reason we cannot hold to the 2nd coming of Jesus being in the
Biblical era as you and Jan seem to hold is because not everything Jesus had
predicted was fulfilled at that time.  The biggest thing that had not yet
been fulfilled is Mat 24:14, in which Jesus said, "And this gospel of the
kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come."  
        At the time you suggest, the gospel had yet to be preached in any of
the Americas, North or South.  Nor had it made it through Asia, the islands
of the Pacific or to Austrailia.  Jesus said the gospel would be preached in
"all the world for a witness unto all nations;"  Any earlier coming would
have left probably 80% or better of the world unevangelized.
        Jesus also said to learn the parable of the fig tree in Mat 24, that
just like when the fig tree puts forth leaves we know that summer is on the
way, when we saw all the things He spoke of in Mat 24 coming to pass that
the end would be near.  The words that you and Jan are hung up on is "This
generation"
in Mat 24:34.  The word translated in the King James as "this" is the Greek
word "houtos."  The Greek dictionary says:

3778. houtos, hoo'-tos; includ. nom. masc. plur. houtoi, hoo'-toy; nom. fem.
sing., haute, how'-tay; and nom. fem. plur., hautai, how'-tahee; from the
art. G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), i.e. this or that (often with art.
repeated):--he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these,
they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

        You can see from the above, the word "houtos" can also be translated
as "that" or "which".  So, Jesus was saying that the generation which sees
everything being fulfilled is the one that will not pass away until the end.
Paul's generation never saw the whole world evangelized, therefore Jesus did
not return in that previous generation.

                                Glen
Glen P. Strecker
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